littlestkobold ([info]littlestkobold) wrote,
@ 2007-03-08 12:01:00
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Current location:Dodge City
Current mood: curious
Current music:Jo Whiley on Radio1
Entry tags:games, gaming, six bullets

[Six Bullets] No such thing as too many dice!
I’m writing a game called Six Bullets for Vengeance, a quirky little story game which is best described as a Kill Bill meets Memento. It uses several dice pools as its core mechanic, but it didn’t occur to me until my last playtest, when I found myself buying a brick of dice specially, that it might use too many dice.

Now don’t get me wrong – we’re not talking thousands of dice here, Exalted style, but we are talking some. Maybe 10 per player, plus a few more for fun? And you’re rarely required to roll them all at once. They’re d6s too, and most people have a fair few of them lying around, especially if they play Warhammer.

In fact, part of the reason Six Bullets uses so many is that it uses dice as its counters and tokens, which could easily be replaced with real tokens. I just like the image and tactility of dice as counters, of grabbing those tokens you’ve been using to measure your gun shooting or vengeance or whatever right off your character sheet and throwing them down on the table to resolve a conflict. Truth be told it excites me a little! And for that I’m prepared to stick by my big brick of d6s.

I sometimes have a problem with Godlike and its many many d10s, but I get over that pretty quickly when I remember how cool the system is. Dogs in the Vineyard uses a lot of dice too, especially the obscurer types, but I’m learning to stock up on d4s and d8s now.

Is there such a thing as too many dice? Or tokens or counters or whatever? Have you ever picked a game up and read it and gone “urgh, I can’t play this – it uses too many dice/tokens/weird counters!”?

EDIT: also, new user pic!




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[info]belak_krin
2007-03-08 01:00 pm UTC (link)
Personally I find that if a roll calls to pick up more dice than I can manage in one hand, its too much. Its not so much of a problem if its only going to happen once a session, but if I have to regularly scoop up dice in both hands I quickly lose interest in the process.

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[info]jody_macgregor
2007-03-08 02:01 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, if a game requires me to evolve larger hands to be able to roll all of the dice it needs, that's too many.

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[info]bluegargantua
2007-03-08 01:36 pm UTC (link)

If you're a gamer who doesn't have a brick of d6's you're not really a gamer. ;)

Besides, for most of us lot's of d6's == Fireball Damage and that's always a fond, fond memory.

later
Tom

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[info]eddyfate
2007-03-08 02:09 pm UTC (link)
I agree that the dice should be comfortable in the hand (or two hands to shake them up), but in general I haven't found a game that I play that makes me think that.

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[info]drivingblind
2007-03-08 02:42 pm UTC (link)
Don't Rest Your Head caps out at a handful of about 15 dice ... so you won't find me complaining here.

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[info]slev
2007-03-08 04:26 pm UTC (link)
half-a-dozen dice roled at once is fine. Larger numbers in odd curcumstance is also cool, as Fading Suns proved with effect dice under VPS.

My main problem would be: Do I use my blue briks I bought for my 40K Orks? The green ones I bought for my Skaven? The purple & gold ones I bought for my Slaaneshi army? Or do I buy a whole new brick...

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[info]zencadet
2007-03-08 06:03 pm UTC (link)
So it falls on me to be the voice of descention? Oh well.

Despite having played White Wolf games (yes, including Exalted's I-need-a-big-ass-old-tub-to-roll-my-dice-from System(tm)) I'm generally not a fan of games that start having heavy reliance on lots of dice. Yes I have a lot of d10 because I used to run a lot of World of Darkness games so I made sure I had enough dice for both me and my players should anyone either not have dice or have forgotten to bring their dice. And to completely frank the only reason I have as many d10 as I do is because I bought as many as I figured I'd need one year at GenCon and then the following year forgot to bring my dice (gasp!) and so bought another load.

Most of the d6 I own have either been found or salvaged from old games. Although I'm pretty sure that some of them have just spontaneously appeared in my possession because I really don't ever remember actually acquiring them.

While I enjoy Six Bullets, finally sitting down at the live playtest in Conception there was one part of my mind going: "Shit, this is a lot of dice. Is this too many? It looks like more dice than I would have associated with a storytelling game."

I generally get discouraged by games where too much focus becomes on dice-rolling and as fun as the idea of tactile nature of dice is, there is a danger of players beginning to rely on dice rolls (because, heck, what else are all those armies of dice doing there except asking to be rolled - repeatedly!) at the expense of just collaborativly building an imaginative story.

"So wait a minute - you just cut my hand off?"
"The dice don't lie."
"But in the next scene it's already established that I was hanging from the rooftop with one hand while clobbering Bob here mercilessly with the vintage sword I somehow acquire at the end of this scene which you've just used to cut off my frickin' hand!"
"The dice don't lie."
"But this doesn't make sense!"
"The dice don't lie."

I'm not saying that this will always become the case, but it can be instantly detrimental to the game if more than one player defaults to this mentality (I figure one player is easier to "put right" than two). I always liked the fact that in Six Bullets the idea of player characters is somewhat fuzzy, that they're only loosly your property, that other people have dramatic control over your actions and where dice are reserved mostly for gaining creative control over the story at dramatic moments as opposed to simply resolving whether I hit you or not.

I've yet to pick up a game that I can't play, the issue rather becommmes how likely I am to end up playing it.

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